What “hope” do you have being an evolutionist?

PCwP has recently received comments from a couple of antievolutionists and this has roused me to action (having some time off work for the holidays doesn’t hurt either). The first was a collection of insult ridden rants left at miscellaneous posts by someone going by the handle “Rylore” —those I will deal with, at length in a separate article.

The second was a single, more civil comment, left at my first article about Dinny the Dinosaur (and how it has been taken over by creationists) by a Allyssa Korzeniewski. I will address her comments here.

Ms. Korzeniewski appears to be involved in a couple of blogs, Faith With Love and Creation Artist. According information given on those blogs she seems to have been influenced by the likes of Answers in Genesis, the Institute for Creation Research and both “Dr.” Kent Hovind (currently serving time for tax evasion) and his son Eric Hovind, all proponents of young Earth creationism.

So without further ado, Ms. Korzeniewski:

Alyssa Korzeniewski: Sad, that this is your take on life. What hope do you have? I was an evolutionist like you once, I had no hope, no comfort.

I don’t see that I gave a “take on life” in the article you commented on but regardless, Ms. Korzeniewski, please try to understand that from my point of view you might as well asked what hope I have given that I accept the atomic theory of matter, the germ theory of disease, or the theory of relativity. The question is nonsensical; it is like asking if mathematics tastes good or what color philosophy is.

This is because scientific theories, the theory of evolution included, are not intended to give one either hope or comfort (whatever that might mean) rather they are intended to be testable explanatory frameworks for what we observe (facts) in the natural world around us. Moreover, the explanations they offer are tested in an ongoing basis by making further observations of the natural world, not by how well they conform to our philosophical, political or religious predilections. Nor are they to be judged by subjective emotional responses they might evoke in us as individuals, be it the warm fuzzies or nihilistic despair.

So if you are judging the findings of science on how it makes you feel, I would say you are making a categorical mistake.

On the other hand, doing the opposite and letting the findings of science inform your politics or religion etc. is perfectly reasonable. If that means abandoning some cherished beliefs, well, them’s the breaks.

Oh, and no offense (well maybe just a little), but I sincerely doubt that you were ever an evolutionist like me. Those of us that defend evolution against its detractors hear such comments on a regular basis; however, the people making them invariably show themselves to be largely ignorant of evolutionary theory and often science in general. For example, the fact that you seem to think that personal emotional responses are somehow relevant to the veracity  of evolutionary theory is a big red flag indicating that you were never like me.

Alyssa Korzeniewski: I looked at the creation info and was willing to humble myself and be saved, it’s very sad that you have not been willing to look at the truth.

Red flag (with fireworks) number two is the fact that you apparently put credence in “the creation info” of not only the ICR and AiG but in Kent Hovind, who even other creationists have taken to task over his willingness to use “fallacious arguments and incorrect information” (talk about the pot calling the kettle black).  

I am sorry but these people are an absolute fount of misinformation, half-truths and lies. If you take some time to read some of the article on my blog you can see where I have documented this many, many times. Please understand, I am not simply talking about their not accepting evolution or any scientific theory, I am talking about the fact that they regularly and systematically get straightforward verifiable facts completely wrong.

That you apparently do not see this is a huge sign that you were never anything like me.

As for my being willing to “look at the truth” as you see it, I can only laugh. I have dedicated much of my free time (and money) over the last twenty years to studying creationism, collecting creationist literature, reading their web sites and going to their lectures & debates.

I have nearly four hundred books and pamphlets espousing creationist “truth”, how many books on evolutionary biology do you have Ms. Korzeniewski? How many lectures on evolution have you attended? How much of the Talk Origins Archive have you read?

However, please condescend to me some more about how unwilling I have been to look at your supposed truth, I really cannot get enough.

Alyssa Korzeniewski: How are you even able to tell right from wrong without God?

The philosophical question about where we derive our morals and ethics from is not one I am particularly interested in debating. Not that it is not an interesting and important topic, it just not my thing. However, suffice to say I do not find divine command “theory” particularly compelling.

To start you might want to read up on the Euthyphro dilemma.

Alyssa Korzeniewski: “2Ti_4:4 they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”

Ms. Korzeniewski, if you assume, as you seem to have done, that I am an unbeliever in the Christian religion what possible effect did you think quoting Christian scripture would have on me? If someone does not believe the Bible is the word of God, you might just as well quote something from The Lord of the Rings or The Wizard of Oz at them.

Worse, the quote you used practically begs the unbeliever to turn it back on to you. For example:

“Turned unto fables”? You mean fables like the one about the garden with magic fruit trees and a talking snake? Or the fable about the old guy who built a giant boat and took two of every sort of animal on it to escape a global flood?

I mean it practically screams projection.

Now Ms. Korzeniewski, if you would like to discuss the scientific merits of creationism I am certainly willing. Perhaps you would like to present what you think the single best scientific evidence supportive of creationism might be? Remember though, arguments against evolution do not count.

Thank you for your comments.

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12 thoughts on “What “hope” do you have being an evolutionist?

  1. I can see you have taken my own blogging technique and hoped to use it against me. What can I say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, with that I am flattered! Satan never creates he only imitates and twists what God has already made so I say with my Saviour, “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” John 8:44. Deceived you satan has, and I say this out of love like my Savior did to those who had become so obsessed with the traditions of man they viewed them above the Word of God that could save their souls.

    I was Hoping that maybe if I threw out a life preserver you might take it, apparently not. Some people that are drowning would rather not be saved but instead try to pull down their rescuer, I see that is the case with you. Sadly you would rather continue parading your way to hell, and eventually God will cast you into the lake of fire for eternity, after you are faced with your every sin which you refuse to have covered with the blood of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ.

    I won’t sit here and spat about the Creation Science information, you yourself know where to find the truth. I see that you fear man more than anything and are scared It will cost you to change your mind about evolution. I will tell you this, it will cost you dearly not to change your mind, you will lose everything good God has ever given you in the end. In the end you will become a believer, everyone will,“ That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” Philippians 2:10-11. Your pride may not let that happen until you reach those eternal flames, just know that it were better for you to pluck out your own eye than to enter hell, “if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.”Matthew 18:9. Time is running out, you’re only a heartbeat away, and God holds your very breath in His hand. He is a loving God and will not let you go without knowing in your heart that there is a Savior. He will continue to plague your conscience as He did Pharaoh with sorrow, depression, and guilt, it’s your choice whether or not you harden your heart. Just know that it will not benefit you in anyway. Just as a blind man can not make out the objects in front of him, you lie in darkness. I hope that one day you will say with me “I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see.”

  2. Thank you so much for this response. I was raised in an intellectual environment very much like the one you are creating around yourself. The sheer lack of honest self-awareness projected by people like you was instrumental in helping me understand the dysfunctional role such beliefs can have in human life. My gut revulsion to such dishonesty helped me see myself as others might be seeing me, and helped me shed my own dishonest theism.

    “I won’t sit here and spat about the Creation Science information…” – in other words, truth doesn’t matter to you. Again, thank you, and do please continue. You are a strong and effective witness against your own claims. If there were a Satan, he would be amused.

    KP

    • Again I’m not going to watse time on someone who refuses to look at truth, you can work on answering these questions through…
      “10 Questions For Evolutionists
      Feb.8,2011

      The following article is reposted from drdino.com.

      The test of any theory is whether or not it provides answers to basic questions. Some well-meaning, but misguided people think evolution is a reasonable theory to explain man’s questions about the universe. Evolution is not a good theory—it is just a pagan religion masquerading as science.
      10 Questions to Ask Evolutionists:

      Where did the space for the universe come from?
      Where did matter come from?
      Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?
      How did matter get so perfectly organized?
      Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?
      When, where, why, and how did life come from non-living matter?
      When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?
      With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?
      Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to survive, or the species? How do you explain the origin of reproduction?)
      How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)

      I’ve got many more where this came from, but let’s start with these ten.” -from Kent Hovind’s blog

      • Perhaps you should consider rereading and trying to understand Troy’s reference to category errors in the original post. Only 3 of the questions you pose concern the theory of evolution. Setting aside for a moment the nearly unspeakable lack of understanding presupposed in all of them, the simple one-liner answers to the vaguely relevant ones are:

        - with other cells like itself. Populations evolve, not individuals. This is explained in any textbook.
        - because organisms that don’t reproduce aren’t here any more. This is explained in any textbook. And by simple common sense. Oh, right, sorry.
        - because the genetic code is expressed in the physical form of the organism. Change the code, change the form. Sometimes for the better. This is explained in any textbook.

        Of course the answers could be much more nuanced and qualified, but, since we both know that you aren’t the slightest bit sincere in your questions, I can’t imagine why I would bother. Perhaps you should read a textbook.

        Oh, and if you can’t figure out which questions are the ones that got answered, well, would we be surprised? I think not. Maybe you should try looking up the difference between cosmology, abiogenesis and evolution in a textbook. I admit to enjoying a good argument from ignorance as much as the next guy, but it seems kind of sad when you’re so ignorant of a subject that you actually have to borrow someone else’s to top up. Or would that be down?. When, precisely, did you conclude that regurgitating the questions of someone with no education in the subject was a better idea than actually looking for the answers yourself? Like maybe in a textbook, the way honest people do?

        But do please carry on. As always, people like you are the strongest witness to the dishonesty of creationism and we do appreciate you for that.

  3. @Ms Korzeniewski:
    You have chosen a very bad example to show Troy that it’s his choice whether or not he hardens his heart:
    “And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh” Exe 9:12
    “And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart” Exe 10:1
    “But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart” Exe 10:20
    I could go on, the LORD claims plenty more times that he intends to harden, or has hardened P’s heart.

    • Exo_8:32 And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.

      It was a combination, Pharaoh hardened his own heart, in response God hardened Pharaoh’s heart. When you reject God, and take a step away, His response is to take a step away from you. You will never have any real peace or joy without the prince of peace “unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. ” Isaiah 9:6., as Pharaoh learned, so will you!

  4. @Ms Korzeniewski: And, of course, every bit of mindless drivel that you spout presupposes that the zombie rabbi and his imaginary sky daddy yahwehwehweh actually exist when there is not a shred of evidence for that assertion. The other lovely thing about the fable about the exodus, (that never happened), is the bit where your lovely god, the master of peace and love, killed every first born in Egypt for the supposed sins of the Pharaoh. As Troy says a perfect example of the meanness and psychotic nature of your imaginary sky fairy. You compound your idiocy by mindlessly assuming that people who are too self aware and intelligent to believe the utter piffle that you do, do so in order to sin against god. Incredible level of idiocy required for that one. We don’t believe in your god and we don’t believe in his imaginary ‘sins’. Generally we are good people going about our lives the best we can. If I thought that there were a god and a heaven and a hell, I would become a Roman catholic as that would enable me to sin as much as I like but then obtain absolution and thus get one over on your idiotic god. Your idiocy makes no sense and does not stand up to even the slightest logical analysis.
    -F, must try harder.

  5. Pingback: Round 2 of: What “hope” do you have being an evolutionist? | Playing Chess with Pigeons

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